New Theater Now: The Legacy of Out There
For over three decades, the Walker’s annual theater series Out There has surveyed leading theater and performance makers from around the world who approach the art form of theater in fresh and new ways. Inviting a carefully curated group of global projects, Out There reflects a spectrum of new ideas and approaches to what we think of as theater.
Concentrating the Walker’s presentation of theater works into the darkest months of Minnesota winter, Out There has become a local tradition to escape domestic confines and discover something new.
Reflecting on the legacy and future of Out There, the Walker’s Director and Senior Curator for Performing Arts, Philip Bither, sat down to discuss innovative theater and why, year after year, Minnesotans brave the cold to experience something different.
Jake Yuzna
I have to confess that the first time I went to Out There was when I was child. How has it grown and changed over the years?
Philip Bither
Looking back over the nearly 150 projects over the 38 years, I am always struck that the founding idea of Out There has remained consistent: What can theater be today and in the future? Out There was created to ask: How can we expand, and sometimes explode, the idea of what theater is and can be?
A vast amount of America theater adheres to one kind of tradition, where the most prominent element is the playwright and their words. There as been an assumption that at its core, theater is primarily a literary art, and the “well-made play” is the model to be emulated. Through its years, Out There has made the case that there are many ways to communicate a story or an idea, particularly when you look around the world. Theater has evolved a lot since its beginnings in ancient Greece and India. It continues to evolve.
Over the last 100 years, artists have been experimenting on what can happen when you gather groups of people together to share an experience and witness some kind of performance. There are a lot of terms that have been used when talking about this type innovative theater, such as avant-garde or post-dramatic theater, devised or ensemble theater, and experimental theater. There is a long history of experimentation in theater spanning Brecht, Artaud, Beckett, Peter Brook, Butoh, Theatre of the Oppressed, Poor Theatre, and others. Out There builds on this and is offered as a way for artists to take new chances and grow in unexpected ways.
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PomoAfroHomos, Fierce Love: Stories from Black Gay Life, 1994. Courtesy of the artist. -
John Jesurun, Everything That Rises Must Converge,1990. Courtesy of the artist. -
Bloolips, Get Hur, part 3, 1993. Courtesy of the artist.
I love the fact that it’s grown to become a tradition that, after the holidays when it’s freezing cold, intrepid Minnesotans will step out for the weirdest theater imaginable.
JY
The Twin Cities is one of the largest markets for theater in the country. What do you think Out There adds to this ecosystem?
PB
We have a wealth of high quality producing-theater companies here, but the majority are dedicated to plays or musicals that stay rooted in a fairly traditional theater models. That is wonderful, but there is also room for other forms of theatrical expression. When you have both, a stronger arts ecosystem is created that benefits everyone.
JY
What about the rest of the U.S.?
PB
Generally, neither the regional producing-theater world or the commercial models support these artists’ work, so it really comes to art centers, museums, festivals, and artist-run spaces to sustain them in making their projects. Out There has allowed the Walker to be seen throughout the world as one of the few friendly homes in the U.S. really open to taking those kinds of risks.
JY
Theater is known for its model of traveling companies and tours. Does that play a role in Out There?
PB
Out There opens a window for the Twin Cities to see new styles of work because it’s long been internationally oriented. The series has a legacy of inviting radical theater-makers of our time who otherwise probably would not have come to Minnesota, or even to the U.S. at all were it not for our invitations and advocacy. The Walker is often the first partner to sign onto a project that then will play in New York or elsewhere.
In addition to global innovators, many of the leading U.S. forces in recent theater innovation presented early pieces in Out There and then grew up with us in return visits on and sometimes then off of Out There. Elevator Repair Service, 600 Highwaymen, Big Dance Theater, Roger Guenveur Smith, Tina Satter, Daniel Fish, Cynthia Hopkins, Richard Maxwell, Kaneza Schaal and Young Jean Lee all had early works at the Walker. Now they are all considered major forces in redefining the notions of what American theater can and should be.
JY
How about our local communities?
PB
It has always been important for Out There to connect these international and national theater-makers to local artists. We offer a variety of ways to do this.
There is a long-standing program with the Perpich Center for Arts Education public high school where their students get to see all the shows and meet with the artists. We bring the artists over to their school, and they have these deep conversations. We also always do a post-show conversation with the artists, and the artists join the audience for drinks in the City View bar. That allows audience members who might be confused or excited to share what they are thinking and feeling with the artists.
This really breaks those lines down between an artist being up on a pedestal, the audience is over here, and never the twain shall meet.
JY
How has Out There shifted over the years?
PB
Out There started with just two works at the Southern Theater. It grew there for more than a decade before we built and then opened the McGuire Theater in 2005. Having a theater at the Walker offered us the chance to support larger and more complex works and to curate more globally. Even though we have this amazing 385-seat theater, Out There lets us experiment with how to use our spaces in new ways. It isn’t unusual for us to present a workin a unique offsite setting or via a more intimate audience experience where both the production and audience are together on the stage.
Out There give is a license to sometimes take wild chances like creating an immersive sound light experience on stage for only 8 people at a time, an intimate video conferencing experience between a call center worker in Calcutta and a single audience member, or a six-hour durational work in a raw factory space where audiences could come and go as they please, many staying the whole time. We can mix it up.
JY
What brought on the start of Out There?
BP
It was started by my predecessor, John Killacky, who a long time ago told me he was thinking of inviting a couple of theater artists who made radical, transgressive work and call it “Out There.” I don’t think he thought of it as something that would last for decades.
It first took place at the Southern Theater, because the Walker didn’t have its own theater at the time. We had the auditorium, which is now our cinema, and because of its stage and technical limitations we were always looking for spaces and partners outside of the Walker.
This was before there was a Fringe Festival in Minnesota, or the significant growth of local dance and independent theater here and the Southern Theater was dark a lot of the time. They were looking for more opportunities to stage theater works, and a partnership with the Walker was a great fit.
Since Out There took place every week in January, it became a festival of sorts. People kept saying things to us like, “I love this, and I can't wait for Out There every year.” It was so popular that a lot of people started thinking Out There was our whole performing arts program. It built its own kind of buzz and reputation.
JY
How about this year? Is it a typical Out There?
PB
The beauty of Out There is that every year is different—but, yes, this year is quintessential Out There.
We will be presenting a new staging of a seminal work Exquisite Pain by the England-based group Forced Entertainment. They are the leading force in experimental theater in Europe and beyond for the last 40 years, and they are remounting this project just for us. This is the first and only time Forced Entertainment used a script by someone other than themselves. In this case it is inspired by the work of French artist Sophie Calle. The work focuses on a woman sharing their heartbreaking story of their romantic breakup. On the other side of the stage she is joined by a man, who shares stories that he heard from many others.
After that, we have a new work by LA-based Edgar Arceneaux, Boney Manilli. Edgar is a visual artist who has been in residence for a year and a half with the Walker, working with all kinds of different local communities. The work is a musical family drama that explores the life of an artist who’s stuck and can’t create while reflecting on these other stories, including that of Milli Vanilli. It is a wild mix of things that includes really talented actors as well as local puppeteers.
Next is South Korean artist Jaha Koo’s Cuckoo, in which he tells the story of modern South Korea accompanied by three talking rice cookers. Koo is an electronic music artist who hacked a very popular brand of rice cookers called Cuckoos. Through this, he tells the tragic story of the impact that U.S. economists’ ideas of hyper-capitalism has had on South Korea over the last 25 years.
Finally, we really push the boundaries of form with Autumn Knight Live at the Walker, 2025. Autumn will create a live film and theater piece all at the same time in two different spaces at the Walker. The work is really stretching the definition of what we think of as theater.
JY
Why so you think it’s important to continue Out There?
PB
There are two answers to that question. The first is that artists who are questioning form and changing the nature of theatrical work are helping to keep theater fresh, vital, and evolving. Without this, the art form could begin to atrophy. Pushing what we imagine theater can be is essential to new ideas, energies, and ways of thinking of our time.
Out There has made the Walker a key hub for supporting innovative theater, not only in the Midwest, but also throughout the U.S. and beyond. There have been many instances when New York City, Los Angeles, or Chicago audiences have benefited from the commitments the Walker made to support bringing an international artist to the states. Because of this, those artists then tour their works around the country and North America. It is part of the Walker’s responsibility as a national leader in this field. As a contemporary arts center, that’s what we’re supposed to be doing.
The second part of that answer is that Out There gathers people together. Artists reflect the stresses, thoughts, and creativity of our time. Coming together taps us into the moment we’re living in among artists from many different backgrounds. It lets people come together in a single space to experience something unique that can only exist for the brief amount of time everyone is together.
JY
It is funny you mention the social side. When I first moved to New York City from Minneapolis, I barely saw any live performance. One day, I woke up and thought: This is ridiculous. After that, when a new season came out, I would buy two tickets to anything that sounded vaguely interesting. It became an excuse to connect with friends I might not see because we’re all so busy in our day-to-day lives.
I would say, “Hey, I have this extra ticket. Want to grab dinner or a drink and see this performance?”
PB
Sounds like you are our kind of audience member.
JY
I think that just might just be a Minnesotan thing.▪︎
Experience the 2025 Out There line-up live and in-person. Learn more and get tickets here.
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