
We All Have War in Our Bodies: Eiko Otake on What is War
Born in 1952 in Japan, movement–based, interdisciplinary artist Eiko Otake relocated to New York City in 1976 where she still lives and works. For over 40 years, Otake created work as part of Eiko & Koma.
After meeting Chinese performing artist Wen Hui at a festival in 1995, the pair struck up a friendship that continues to this day.
In this second part of a trilogy of interviews exploring their collaboration, Otake sat down with Rachel Cooper, Director of Global Cultural Diplomacy at Asia Society, to trace her journey from the 1960s anti-war protests to the creation of their newest project What is War.
Rachel Cooper
Do you feel that your approach has changed with this work, What is War?
Eiko Otake
I am absorbing layered episodic knowledge from Wen Hui and from our process. I like to hear and share stories, and experiences from those and with those I trust.

RC
Are there skills or techniques you focus on now that you didn’t before?
EO
Since Koma and I came to the US 49 years ago, I have worked with many collaborations. The most important is not a skill but instinct in selecting a particular collaborator in a particular time when not only I but that particular collaborator also desires to work with me(us). Once I find our desires are mutual, we begin building up trust and particular method that works for this particular person. This was also what I learned while I was in China visiting Wen Hui.
Being in different cultures changes the way we understand things. I don’t mean only “culture,” but also political situations—how that shapes your education and kind of assumptions we built within ourselves not knowing that is not universal.

RC
What has been your experience when traveling to other places and cultures?
EO
I grew up in post-war Japan and have lived in the US for 49 years, I have not been afraid in either country. Although now we feel obliged to be cautious, I still find having in-person conversations helps build trust and knowledge.
RC
How did you and Wen Hui begin to work together?
EO
My visit to China in January of 2020 renewed my friendship with Wen Hui. The history between Japan and China often came up when I was in China.
When we watched Chinese TV in Chinese New Year, we saw the images of Japanese military ‘s war-time violence. Every country blames the other country and Japan also does this with its nationalism and often to disregard history. But Japan’s invasion to China was wrong and brutal. We’re talking about World War II, and, though I was born after the war, I’m closer in age to that war than Wen Hui is.
Japan did not send soldiers abroad since the Second World War. When Japan was fighting toward the end of World War II, people had to donate their household pots and pans to make military supplies. During the World War ll, more than 65 percent of Japanese military men starve to death. These people are also victims of war. In war countries kill not only people of different countries but also their own people. Your own family often had to send them to die—or live with nightmares and wounds. World War ll was that kind of war for Japanese. When we visited Nanjing Massacre Museum and watched TV documentaries together, we shared and expanded our knowledge about war.

RC
Do you feel like war has affected your life?
EO
My life has been defined by the 1960s. When I was young, we protested against the Vietnam War. In Japan there were so many US military bases, even though, Japan’s Constitution renounces war.
Today, the voices of those who went through WWII are dying off, their voices nearly gone. Now, I realize, my generations are the ones who remember their voices of war generations. I think most of Japanese war generation had anti-war sentiment. When I was growing up in Japan, being a Socialist meant being a humanist.
RC
How did you and Wen Hui find a shared camaraderie?
EO
It really goes back 30 years, to 1995, when I met Wen Hui at the Guangdong Contemporary Festival. in botanical garden.
Wen Hui was also performing at the festival, and we saw each other’s work. I was very surprised to see her work Toilet/Living Together. They were eating food out of a toilet, and it was only afterward that I learned they were talking about sex and abortion. I did not know that because they were talking in Chinese, but in terms of the form of the performance, I saw their work originated from life, and experimental.
RC
When you met in Guangdong, both of you were involved in experimental artmaking?
EO
I’m the kind of person that never wanted to be technical dancer or make a technical piece. Performance was very much like a desire to self-transform from being a book worm to a person with a body.
RC
How did this project, What Is War, start?
KO
I had a residency that sent me to China for one month. After that, Wen Hui was to come to the US to be with me for a month, and we would see what happens. It was funded by the Asian Cultural Council and the Beijing Contemporary Art Foundation.
When I was in China, the Covid-19 pandemic started, and the whole project stopped. Wen Hui couldn’t come to America, and we pivoted to making a movie from the footage we shot during my visit. This made us look back. We both are interested in filmmaking as a self-curated archive and to share our stories.
I had engaged with many collaborators in my Duet Project since 2018. I wanted to do something I can only do with Wen. But we wanted to stay open mind and not to make an obligation.

RC
Yet you each have very different histories.
EO
She was born in 1960. I was born in 1952. Wen Hui is very Chinese in a way—not traditional Chinese, but in a rooted way. I’m Japanese, not in a traditional way, but my Japanese-ness is there.
When I first met Wen in 1995, she looked so much younger. At that time, our conversation was one of an older artist with a younger artist. But as you grow older, the age difference gets smaller. That also means you speak more about and listen to each person’s history.
The Japan I grew up was not the Japan now. We didn’t have a bath in the house, a vacuum cleaner, or an icebox, not to mention more recent gadgets.
I really got to know her during my month in China because I stayed in her apartment and while we were visiting her family, we stayed in the same hotel. Toward the end of my time in China, I asked her brother, “Was she always like this?” He said, “No, no, no. She was completely different.” I asked, “What happened to her when?” He replied, “She changed when she started to learn modern dance and choreography.”

RC
How did the work start to take a form?
EO
The Walker Art Center was the instigator. I have worked with Philip [Bither] many times, from his previous positions before he went to the Walker in the 1990s. He knows me well. Philip said, “I want you to work with someone that you cannot afford to work with unless we commission.” I immediately thought of my collaboration with Wen Hui. It so happened that Philip at the Walker also presented Wen Hui’s work.
I called Wen Hui right away, and she said, “Let’s do it.” We just had to find the time and place to be with to work on this piece.
RC
How did the work develop?
EO
We had a two-week residency at Duke, followed by a four-week residency at Colorado College, and then another two-week residency at Mass MoCA: altogether, eight weeks in three places plus ½ weeks in Wesleyan University, Yale, and U of Texas in Austin.
At a presentation, I said “You know I am Japanese. It is not my personal fault, but Japan colonized and did many violent actions in China. “I want to acknowledge the history and apologize.”
Wen Hui was surprised. when I showed that footage, my Japanese friends and, my Japanese students were surprised. And I was surprised that they were surprised. This made me think there was not enough honest talk between people of China and Japan.
We continued talking and got to know each other more. We ha both previously worked in a partnership for decades. In collaboration, it doesn’t matter whose idea works when and how.

RC
Did your different forms of training come into play?
EO
Wen Hui looks from a choreographer’s point of view. Whereas I am not interested in choreographing other people. When the two of us are working, I often tell her, “I go in and you look. But while she is looking at me on stage, I am also building myself in this piece as a different performer from that of my solo work or Eiko & Koma’s. Of course, I also look at her on stage and think how I could contribute.”
RC
How did you come to the title?
EO
It started with her being very surprised when I told her I wanted to go to the Nanjing Massacre Museum. She asked why I wanted to go there. That started us talking about war, how war isn’t separate from us. We all have war in our bodies. No one escapes war.▪︎

Experience What is War at the Walker April 11–12, 2025 at the Walker. Learn more and get tickets here.